I was listening to a podcast about heaven today where the author of a book about heaven said that until 167 BCE there was no concept of a heaven where the dead went to experience conscious eternal life in ANY religion, including the Hebrew religion.
A quote describing Hebrew thought on the afterlife... "...if you were dead, you slept in a cave with your ancestors. If you were good like Abraham you rested comfortably. If you were bad, you might wander restlessly." Transcript of podcast
I'm so embarrassed to say that having been in church most of my life, reading the bible consistently for decades, having gone to bible college and seminary, and even having been a pastor... this struck me as NEW information!
Where have I been?
Wow, it gets me thinking, or rethinking, many of my views on heaven and hell, salvation, and Jesus' teachings on the subjects. Even though the notion of eternal conscious existence after death became quite popular in those 2 centuries before Christ, it was still an unsettled matter... as we see in the conflicts about it between the pharisees and saducees.
If this new doctrine had not developed, it leads one to wonder what Jesus would have taught on these subjects, or whether he would have brought them up at all...
Also, If "heavan and hell" were not such a big deal for the 2,000 years of Hebrew history, why has Christianity made it the ONLY deal?
And what was the motivation for the Israelites to obey the covenant? Was it solely for the this-worldly benefits??
I continue to be surprised by how much my biblical education has primarily served to reinforce previously held beliefs. (Like recently studying annihilationism and finding very strong biblical support for it. I was shocked.) I'm definitely in a state of "humility" about my so-called bible knowledge. So much to learn, so little time.
My undergrad professor in a bible as lit course mentioned this (he was not a christian and this was a secular school). I was too busy to over analyze this, still struggling to harmonize science with genesis. It has been about 15 years since i took that course, but has certainly affected my doubts today.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting post. Until my recent struggle with the faith, I'd never even heard or conceived of heaven or hell as symbolic. Having subscribed to a literal, inerrant view of scripture I'd always thought of them as real, physical locations exactly as described in the NT. The more I research the more I'm influenced by this type of thinking, though at first it seemed so heretical to me.
ReplyDeleteYes, I have recently been learning about the development of the beliefs of the aftertlife too. The Israelites had plenty of reasons to obey the torah, just look at all the reasons you could be stoned if you didn't! Why do we obey any rules and conform to our cultural norms? The same motivations applied to them. Our bookclub is reading The Last Days of Socrates by Plato. Partly to get a feel for the ways Greek thought influenced the NT (and yes, the concept of the afterlife).
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting question about what Jesus would have taught. I suppose that depends on whether or not you think hell is real.
I have enjoyed reading Richard Beck's Experimental Theology blog lately on the topic of Universalism. If you haven't read much on the topic, I think you'll find him informative and highly engaging as an author.
Like a child
ReplyDeleteHarmonizing science with Genesis is a pretty good excuse to not grapple with ANY other conundrum! :)
D'Ma
It's funny how something at one time seems heretical to us, and at another time seems to make perfect sense. Makes one question the very nature of our believing process. You could say that we are moving closer to "truth" in our evolving views, however, there are others who are moving in the opposite direction as we are on any particular belief.
Dude or not a dude
Well, the torah is replete with significant blessings and severe curses for obedience to it, or lack thereof. I suppose in that day, with daily living, even existence itself, being quite a toil, obeying God to make your earthly life better would be pretty motivating. Also, I think they had much more of a sense of national identity, pride, and communal belonging than we do. So, the "nation" being cursed affected them personally. Shame and such.
Brothers and sisters, I have been a Christian for 12 years. In such a time, I was taught every Christian doctrine under the sun which is still being taught today. I became distressed with these doctrines and theories, I thought to myself there HAD to be more to this in a spiritual sense/aspect. It got me to the point where I literally cried out to God, to lead me into all truth because I was tired of not knowing what to believe. There and then He spoke to me through a vision and through scriptures, opening my eyes to something that was in front of me all along but I had no knowledge of. He said "go back to your roots, you've been deceived."I couldn't fully comprehend, but a few weeks later my sister invited me to a biblical Hebrew study. This has been life changing, my eyes see from a whole new perspective and Scriptures has never been so clear. The teachings of Christ: Yahshua becomes alive within you.
ReplyDeleteStudy the root of the Bible from a Hebraic stand point of view. Going back to heaven or in Hebrew "hashamayim" (the heaven). It consist of the word fire and water. John said this "I baptized you in water but he that comes will baptized you in fire and Spirit." Christ referenced the Holy Spirit with water in his teachings/parables. So what does fire represent? That's for you to study on. Jeremiah 31:31, understand the promises of the new covenant. He said he will place his LAWS within our hearts and within our mind, AND pour out his Spirit upon us (those that enter into this covenant). Take a step forward, when Christ was asked about the kingdom of heaven he made it clear. "It's neither here nor there, but the Mulkut Hashamayim(kingdom of heaven) is within YOU!"
SHALOM
Mr. Anonymous Shalom,
ReplyDeleteI recently took a 12-week study about our Hebrew roots from HaYesod.com. It raised more questions than it answered. It forced my to look more seriously at the old testament than I ever had, and I didn't like what I saw. I wrote up a summary of my reaction to the series. I read it to the group in our follow-up meeting and nobody had any good answers.
I can't put it here because it has too many characters, so I will reply to the email you sent me and put it in there.